I notice that this gets translated {by faith, to faith, for faith, in faith, in the faith, ...}. Is there some grammar point that allows the translator to add a preposition to the definite article or to drop the definite article altogether and replace it with a preposition or is this just decided by the translator based on context?
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Ok thanks for the specifics. I'll give it a look and give it a think. :-)
Ha! I think I finally understand your question about which translation I'm using. What I have been looking at the most is the interlinear translation on Bible Hub (https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/3.htm). I'm assuming the Bible Hub interlinear is intended to be the original Greek (or close to it based on a mix of existing manuscripts). I guess I really don't know where their word for word translation comes from.
Occasionally, when the interlinear makes my head swim a bit and I want to get a better idea of context, I am read from a mix of translations. The ones at my fingertips are { ESV, NASB, NKJV, KJV, NIV}.
In the following locations I am seeing explicit prepositions being used in the Greek.
{
1 Tim.
, Acts 3:16 (https://biblehub.com/text/acts/3-16.htm)
, Acts 15:9 (https://biblehub.com/text/acts/15-9.htm)
}
It seems quite more frequently, the definite article is being translated into a preposition or combination of the definite article and a preposition. Here are 2 examples
{
https://biblehub.com/text/acts/6-7.htm
, https://biblehub.com/text/acts/14-22.htm
}
James, Yep, lots of resources out there but too few conversation partners. Or, at least, not easy to find them. I will look at the Scripture references later. For now, I will answer your grammar question and I have a couple clarifying questions for you. As for the grammars: I don't know how familiar you are with the broad world of scholarship. As I've studied Greek over the last ten years, you come across the same standard grammars referenced again and again, so you get the feel of which ones are the standards to reference. Here are some titles/authors.
A few foundational grammars from previous generations that are somewhat exhaustive: A.T. Robertson's Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research Blass, DeBrunner & Funk, A Greek Grammar of the New Testament Dana & Mantey, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament More recent and no less foundational, a bit easier to use, too: Stanley Porter, Idioms of the Greek New Testament Dan Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics (this is my usual go-to) There are many more grammars on my shelf, but this is a start. You can get most in print if your savvy or on Logos and Accordance software. Clarifying questions 1. Which translations are you looking at? NIV, KJV, ESV? Others? 2. Help me focus my efforts: Would you mind restating your questions by specifying when you are talking about Greek prepositions in the GNT vs. English prepositions in a translation? I'm trying to nail down exactly what you're asking and I want to understand what is at stake for you so I can focus my effort. 3. (Not a question) Sometimes the preposition in Greek simply determines it's following words must use the dative. -Justin
It looks like you're interested in the dative form of pistis and how the dative might be translated. Am I right? If not, the following may be wide of the mark.
The dative case generally has its own ways of communicating within the grammar of Greek. There are several distinct uses of the dative. A good, standard grammar book will review these. I very briefly survey three or four uses below.
One key and the most common use of the dative is marking the indirect object of a verb (transitive or passive). In this case, the context of the sentence and other grammatical, semantic, and syntactical factors help determine what pisitis means, its significance as an indirect object. That can't be answered in the abstract (nor can anything apart from context, etc., as we know). As for English translation, the sentence has to make sense in English as an indirect object, which is where the use of "to faith" or "for faith" come in, in the case of indirect objects.
There are more uses than I can survey here, but two other main categories of the dative help explain why it's rendered into English using English prepositions when no preposition is in the Greek original. The two other main dative categories are local dative and dative of means.
The Local dative has the root idea of position, be the position in space, time, or a figurative or abstract sphere/realm. Try translating using "in the sphere of" or "when" to help identify this use of the dative. As you can see, these sorts of English glosses indicate why.translator has to introduce prepositions or something else to convey the meaning in English.
Dative of means or Instrumental Dative has the root idea of means or the manner in which something was done, including associations. So, English glosses that help convey the meaning are "by", "through", "in association with", "by means of", "with", "because of".
There are many subgroups under these three main categories, which I've not mentioned. Again, a good grammar will help.
Finally, certain Greek words "automatically" take the dative when the dative is a direct object (instead of an indirect object). You'd have to consult a standard Lexicon (e.g. BDAG) to differentiate these. Basically, when the dative word does not neatly fit another category or appears to be the direct object, check to see if the word it's associated with takes the dative as direct object. Certain English translation with "extra" words may be needed to convey the meaning from Greek to English.
When it comes to the use of the article being the focus, that is an entirely different ball of wax. The article has its own syntax. The dative still needs to be resolved, in any case.
Does this help? Or have I muddied the waters?
No particular verse or context. My question stems from looking at all of the contexts here (https://biblehub.com/greek/pistei_4102.htm).
Is there a particular verse or context you have in mind?